Mr. Dingle Foot
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Post by Mr. Dingle Foot on Oct 28, 2019 9:18:41 GMT -5
When does Marxism in the United States leave the confines of academia, podcasts, and internet forums and become a worker's movement? How do you have a worker's revolution with no workers?
Do you consider labor strikes and work stoppages part of whatever you mean by Marxism?
Does the Chicago Teachers Union decision to include rent control as one of their demands count as explicitly class consciousness count?
Do international movements and strikes and demands for increased pay for food industry workers count?
2017 and 2018 also saw the highest number of labor stoppages in over 20 years (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/13/18223211/worker-teacher-strikes-2018-record).
Is that what you were looking for?
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Post by escapedfromthevalley on Oct 28, 2019 9:19:25 GMT -5
Tons of vets off themselves every day but not Roofies, cause he’s got Joe Rogan and the spirit of capitalism giving him strength This is fucked up! You don't have to like Roofies, but you're a complete fucking piece of shit if you think it's cool to sit here and encourage a veteran who admits to suffering from PTSD to kill himself. All over what? An argument about fucking semantics and political rhetoric? Get fucked.
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pbcookies
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Post by pbcookies on Oct 28, 2019 9:33:20 GMT -5
yeah I missed that earlier, what the fuck
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 9:37:41 GMT -5
I don't know about you guys but I sure enjoyed catching up on 7 pages of whatever the fuck that was.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 9:38:01 GMT -5
I wasn't encouraging him! I was celebrating the fact that he's still with us after being instilled with virtues bestowed upon him by Joe Rogan and the ghost of Adam Smith. Y'all read my post wrong entirely. I hope Roofies listens to all of the Joe Rogan podcasts and keeps fighting communism because it is giving him life.
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Yung Nick
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Post by Yung Nick on Oct 28, 2019 9:44:17 GMT -5
Dinosaurs were probably sucking each other off drop your pants everyone, it's time for a suck fest
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theywalkedinline
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Post by theywalkedinline on Oct 28, 2019 9:44:22 GMT -5
When does Marxism in the United States leave the confines of academia, podcasts, and internet forums and become a worker's movement? How do you have a worker's revolution with no workers?
Do you consider labor strikes and work stoppages part of whatever you mean by Marxism?
Does the Chicago Teachers Union decision to include rent control as one of their demands count as explicitly class consciousness count?
Do international movements and strikes and demands for increased pay for food industry workers count?
2017 and 2018 also saw the highest number of labor stoppages in over 20 years (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/13/18223211/worker-teacher-strikes-2018-record).
Is that what you were looking for?
If you want to take credit for movements you're not leading, sure, it all counts. Marxists didn't instigate the UAW strike or the CTU strike. I know union workers who have suffered while on strike. They took out loans, they skipped payments on bills, the wen't without medical care. They're my family and friends, that's the world I exist in. If you asked them if they were "Marxists" they wouldn't have the slightest idea as to what you're talking about.
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pbcookies
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Post by pbcookies on Oct 28, 2019 9:55:20 GMT -5
I wasn't encouraging him! I was celebrating the fact that he's still with us after being instilled with virtues bestowed upon him by Joe Rogan and the ghost of Adam Smith. Y'all read my post wrong entirely. I hope Roofies listens to all of the Joe Rogan podcasts and keeps fighting communism because it is giving him life. I don't think anyone read your post wrong.
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theywalkedinline
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Post by theywalkedinline on Oct 28, 2019 9:56:50 GMT -5
It's cool that we live in a country where you are allowed to strike, though (for now). We avoided a Novocherkassk Massacre or a situation like China where the police work with management (and the party) to arrest strikers or instigators.
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Mr. Dingle Foot
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Post by Mr. Dingle Foot on Oct 28, 2019 9:58:55 GMT -5
Do you consider labor strikes and work stoppages part of whatever you mean by Marxism?
Does the Chicago Teachers Union decision to include rent control as one of their demands count as explicitly class consciousness count?
Do international movements and strikes and demands for increased pay for food industry workers count?
2017 and 2018 also saw the highest number of labor stoppages in over 20 years (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/13/18223211/worker-teacher-strikes-2018-record).
Is that what you were looking for?
If you want to take credit for movements you're not leading, sure, it all counts. Marxists didn't instigate the UAW strike or the CTU strike. I know union workers who have suffered while on strike. They took out loans, they skipped payments on bills, the wen't without medical care. They're my family and friends, that's the world I exist in. If you asked them if they were "Marxists" they wouldn't have the slightest idea as to what you're talking about. I'm not sure what your point is? If they don't call themselves Marxist, then it doesn't count?
I didn't give credit to anyone or anything, but rather pointed out that class struggles are all inherently, at least partially, a reflection of Marxist understanding. These things have historical processes behind them that are closely tied to Marxism and other veins of communist theory.
The history of the UAW has a significant communist past, especially in the pre-WW II period. Now, if they don't call themselves that today, that is a different discussion.
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pbcookies
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Post by pbcookies on Oct 28, 2019 10:01:13 GMT -5
It's cool that we live in a country where you are allowed to strike, though (for now). We avoided a Novocherkassk Massacre or a situation like China where the police work with management (and the party) to arrest strikers or instigators. Also cool that we don't have a two-tiered caste system where if you move to a big city to do manual labor you are an illegal immigrant within your own country with no legal rights or enforced minimum wage, as in China
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theywalkedinline
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Post by theywalkedinline on Oct 28, 2019 10:14:31 GMT -5
If you want to take credit for movements you're not leading, sure, it all counts. Marxists didn't instigate the UAW strike or the CTU strike. I know union workers who have suffered while on strike. They took out loans, they skipped payments on bills, the wen't without medical care. They're my family and friends, that's the world I exist in. If you asked them if they were "Marxists" they wouldn't have the slightest idea as to what you're talking about. I'm not sure what your point is? If they don't call themselves Marxist, then it doesn't count?
I didn't give credit to anyone or anything, but rather pointed out that class struggles are all inherently, at least partially, a reflection of Marxist understanding. These things have historical processes behind them that are closely tied to Marxism and other veins of communist theory.
The history of the UAW has a significant communist past, especially in the pre-WW II period. Now, if they don't call themselves that today, that is a different discussion.
You're completely missing my point. If communism (in whatever form) is the way forward, communists should be leading these movements, they are not. Communism has fallen away from labor and labor away from communism. Communism has made zero strides in the United States outside of academia, it's heyday is past. Communism in the United States is a relic.
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lil stormy
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Post by lil stormy on Oct 28, 2019 10:27:48 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 10:31:51 GMT -5
You guys sure are somethin' special.
I'm out here not belittling anyone, trying to have a nice time on the internet posting about Charles Marks. Yet you'd think with the responses I get I've insulted somebody's mother! For Pete's sake! I've had it up to here with you smug posters. I'm through!
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refill
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Post by refill on Oct 28, 2019 10:40:04 GMT -5
In my years working as a Teamster and later in the IBEW, I never met someone who advocated for communism. The exceeding majority of rank-and-file union workers are moderates who would prefer a wider safety net in the welfare state, not a communist revolution.
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☭ Bob Loblaw ☭
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Post by ☭ Bob Loblaw ☭ on Oct 28, 2019 11:16:59 GMT -5
Last few pages have been sorta interesting huh?
I’m just going to chime in on this most recent topic of Marxism in America today and agree that it is more or less a relic...due to the Truman administration (and nearly every president after that) systematically dismantling and destroying the Left. I’m sure most of you are aware of Roosevelt and Wallace, The New Deal, Communist Party, Workers Party, Labor Unions, etc so no need to go into the history. But, my point is that Marxism didn’t die, it was murdered. And now, it’s making a come back. As mentioned above, these strikes, cries for income equality, housing, transportation, medical care, etc are all very clear indicators that people are just done with Capitalism. It’s just not sustainable. Just because they haven’t read the Manifesto front to back doesn’t mean they aren’t acutely aware of the class struggle that exists and that it needs to be addressed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 11:21:36 GMT -5
Last few pages have been sorta interesting huh? I’m just going to chime in on this most recent topic of Marxism in America today and agree that it is more or less a relic...due to the Truman administration (and nearly every president after that) systematically dismantling and destroying the Left. I’m sure most of you are aware of Roosevelt and Wallace, The New Deal, Communist Party, Workers Party, Labor Unions, etc so no need to go into the history. But, my point is that Marxism didn’t die, it was murdered. And now, it’s making a come back. As mentioned above, these strikes, cries for income equality, housing, transportation, medical care, etc are all very clear indicators that people are just done with Capitalism. It’s just not sustainable. Just because they haven’t read the Manifesto front to back doesn’t mean they aren’t acutely aware of the class struggle that exists and that it needs to be addressed. You take your lukewarm, rational takes and get the fuck out of here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 11:23:23 GMT -5
Hence, nothing prevents us from making criticism of politics, participation in politics, and therefore real struggles, the starting point of our criticism, and from identifying our criticism with them. In that case we do not confront the world in a doctrinaire way with a new principle: Here is the truth, kneel down before it! We develop new principles for the world out of the world’s own principles. We do not say to the world: Cease your struggles, they are foolish; we will give you the true slogan of struggle. We merely show the world what it is really fighting for, and consciousness is something that it has to acquire, even if it does not want to.
The reform of consciousness consists only in making the world aware of its own consciousness, in awakening it out of its dream about itself, in explaining to it the meaning of its own actions. Our whole object can only be – as is also the case in Feuerbach’s criticism of religion – to give religious and philosophical questions the form corresponding to man who has become conscious of himself.
Hence, our motto must be: reform of consciousness not through dogmas, but by analysing the mystical consciousness that is unintelligible to itself, whether it manifests itself in a religious or a political form. It will then become evident that the world has long dreamed of possessing something of which it has only to be conscious in order to possess it in reality. It will become evident that it is not a question of drawing a great mental dividing line between past and future, but of realising the thoughts of the past. Lastly, it will become evident that mankind is not beginning a new work, but is consciously carrying into effect its old work.
In short, therefore, we can formulate the trend of our journal as being: self-clarification (critical philosophy) to be gained by the present time of its struggles and desires. This is a work for the world and for us. It can be only the work of united forces. It is a matter of a confession, and nothing more. In order to secure remission of its sins, mankind has only to declare them for what they actually are.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 11:23:59 GMT -5
You can't engage on the topic in this thread without wild distortions being thrown your way every step. It happens every time. I tried the reasonable approach, but nobody is willing to listen on that either. It's not worth it, guys.
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theywalkedinline
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Post by theywalkedinline on Oct 28, 2019 11:25:46 GMT -5
You can't engage on the topic in this thread without wild distortions being thrown your way every step. It happens every time. I tried the reasonable approach, but nobody is willing to listen on that either. It's not worth it, guys. Tell me about it.
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Yung Nick
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Post by Yung Nick on Oct 28, 2019 11:27:47 GMT -5
I'd pay my whole paycheck to see everyone in this thread have to kiss on the lips.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 11:31:36 GMT -5
Look, man, I'm not trying to take a dig at anyone but I thought a great example was when I was trying to explain how marxism looks at historical epochs (I know nerd shit, but bare with me.) And it's like I'm talking to a brick wall and you immediately go, "whataboutism!" and link me an article written by the editor and translator of China: A Liberal Critique. We all know the liberal critique, we live in it. All I'm saying is, let's try to understand the other side of things and honestly engage with it. None of which happens ITT ever.
But I get it, it's always just been about petty arguing anyway so I don't know why I bother in the first place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 11:33:42 GMT -5
Gotta hand it to roofie's nihilism posting on the climate for making me not want to shit post for once. That shit's pretty funny.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 11:35:47 GMT -5
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theywalkedinline
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Post by theywalkedinline on Oct 28, 2019 11:37:14 GMT -5
I'd pay my whole paycheck to see everyone in this thread have to kiss on the lips. I've got strep, I'll tongue kiss this whole damn thread.
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lalanointed
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Post by lalanointed on Oct 28, 2019 11:38:28 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 11:39:54 GMT -5
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theywalkedinline
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Post by theywalkedinline on Oct 28, 2019 11:42:22 GMT -5
What happened to Lori Klausutis, Joe?
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☭ Bob Loblaw ☭
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Post by ☭ Bob Loblaw ☭ on Oct 28, 2019 11:44:54 GMT -5
forget what it’s from, could’ve been a podcast or an article, but it basically discusses how to exist as a Marxist-Leninist in a Capitalist society without becoming profoundly depressed lol
I know some of you dudes can relate to that. I def can.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 11:51:20 GMT -5
forget what it’s from, could’ve been a podcast or an article, but it basically discusses how to exist as a Marxist-Leninist in a Capitalist society without becoming profoundly depressed lol I know some of you muchachos can relate to that. I def can. I'd like to find this... for a friend. This keeps me sane haha.
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