|
Post by โ๐ถ๐ๅ๐ฮทฤฎ๐แดแ on May 6, 2023 10:21:45 GMT -5
Yeah, thatโs way out of my wheelhouse. My good friend wen't to CalArts while Reza Negerestani was teaching there, so I checked out some of it. Accelerationism is kinda whack tho
|
|
|
Post by Guybrush Threepwood on May 6, 2023 10:23:10 GMT -5
Yeah, thatโs way out of my wheelhouse. My good friend wen't to CalArts while Reza Negerestani was teaching there, so I checked out some of it. Accelerationism is kinda whack tho Is it?
|
|
|
Post by โ๐ถ๐ๅ๐ฮทฤฎ๐แดแ on May 6, 2023 10:33:55 GMT -5
Yeah, seems like it justifies misanthropy via panpsychism and process ontology. Potato fascism.
|
|
spicydeath
Hard Member
Posts: 145 Join Date: Jun 28, 2018
Likes: 350
|
Post by spicydeath on May 6, 2023 11:09:17 GMT -5
|
|
Cholo Molester
Pulsating Member
our very own Gideon Yago ๐
off the duster
Posts: 19,553 Join Date: Jul 5, 2018
Likes: 33,534
|
Post by Cholo Molester on May 6, 2023 11:33:10 GMT -5
The true and earnest intellect has no need for likes. I practice epistemic humility. Narc in his transcendental era? Iโm here for it. โจ
|
|
Cholo Molester
Pulsating Member
our very own Gideon Yago ๐
off the duster
Posts: 19,553 Join Date: Jul 5, 2018
Likes: 33,534
|
Post by Cholo Molester on May 6, 2023 11:43:12 GMT -5
Nick Land had this article about accelerationism that was really good but Iโve never actually checked out his other essays.
Iโm still on my marxist aesthetics shit and Iโm stuck on Jean Franรงois Lyotardโs โThe Differendโ which was supposed to be an exploration of Kantโs work but it goes way deeper into language and itโs touching on subjects Iโm not too familiar with. Iโm going to stick with it tho, just might have to find some essays on it to help me understand some of the ideas being presented.
|
|
Top Rope Swanton
Engorged Member
these muchachos know what's up
Posts: 2,019 Join Date: Jul 1, 2018 Likes: 2,398
|
Post by Top Rope Swanton on May 6, 2023 12:48:11 GMT -5
Out of all the ideas proposed by Marx, commodity fetishism remains as one of the most misinterpreted subjects amongst western leftists. This has left us with many questions on how Marxism fits the new world in relation to the commodity. For instance, isn't modern travel not just another form of commodity, which replaced acquiring material possessions? As millenials, our generation prioritizes experiences rater than material goods, but those experiences have turned into perceived worth, the new social signifiers of wealth. I understand that "traveling" is not considered a traditional "commodity" in Marxist circles, but we need to start applying the science of Marxism to our new modern society to synthesize new theories and expand our understanding of our current reality. Another interesting subject to look through Marxist filters would be the video game industry and content creators. It's not as straightforward as one might think. honest question but in what way and why do leftists differ between eastern/western geographies?
|
|
spicydeath
Hard Member
Posts: 145 Join Date: Jun 28, 2018
Likes: 350
|
Post by spicydeath on May 6, 2023 12:49:18 GMT -5
I'm trying to wrap my mind around "accelerationism"....foaming-at-the-mouth pro-capitalism?
|
|
Cholo Molester
Pulsating Member
our very own Gideon Yago ๐
off the duster
Posts: 19,553 Join Date: Jul 5, 2018
Likes: 33,534
|
Post by Cholo Molester on May 6, 2023 13:00:21 GMT -5
Out of all the ideas proposed by Marx, commodity fetishism remains as one of the most misinterpreted subjects amongst western leftists. This has left us with many questions on how Marxism fits the new world in relation to the commodity. For instance, isn't modern travel not just another form of commodity, which replaced acquiring material possessions? As millenials, our generation prioritizes experiences rater than material goods, but those experiences have turned into perceived worth, the new social signifiers of wealth. I understand that "traveling" is not considered a traditional "commodity" in Marxist circles, but we need to start applying the science of Marxism to our new modern society to synthesize new theories and expand our understanding of our current reality. Another interesting subject to look through Marxist filters would be the video game industry and content creators. It's not as straightforward as one might think. honest question but in what way and why do leftists differ between eastern/western geographies? Iโll come back and answer this later but the relationship with status and commodities differs greatly.
|
|
|
Post by โ๐ถ๐ๅ๐ฮทฤฎ๐แดแ on May 6, 2023 13:02:29 GMT -5
I'm trying to wrap my mind around "accelerationism"....foaming-at-the-mouth pro-capitalism? Yeah, and ultimately the position collapses into a boring libertarianism/fascism, and none of the high falootin metaphysics n shit retains relevancy.
|
|
|
Post by Guybrush Threepwood on May 6, 2023 13:30:36 GMT -5
That's neither an accurate nor useful characterization. If you accept the premise that capitalism is here to stay (maybe it's not) but that it's fundamentally untenable (maybe it isn't), 'accelerating' it to some other form of socioeconomic organization is not a particularly absurd or even invalid conclusion.
To immediately assume that fascism would result does not bear out from the particular D&G analysis I was referencing, particularly because the 'deterritorializing' force they describe strikes me as way more destructive to the social organization and cohesion that would practicably be required. Or at least as I understand it. YMMV. Read the book - if you can get past the 'solar anus' and 'body without organs', it's a great read.
Instead, if I have any tendency toward accelerationism (which I don't necessarily think I do), it would be within the context of what they describe as the 'limit' of capitalism as something that is both unreachable and yet totalizing. In the liberal West we seem only to be trying to break that limit, not employing it effectively. One could, in theory, accelerate those aspects of capitalism that destabilize and alienate to heighten tension for either awareness or even, at the risk of being cynical, innovation, while simultaneously incorporating other elements like UBI or AI market planning that mitigate the worst effects of our current troubles.
|
|
Bussy Drippens
Turgid Member
Posts: 1,937 Join Date: Jun 10, 2019
Likes: 10,166
|
Post by Bussy Drippens on May 6, 2023 14:17:52 GMT -5
any rene girard fans here? violence and the sacred is a great read
|
|
|
Post by โ๐ถ๐ๅ๐ฮทฤฎ๐แดแ on May 6, 2023 14:43:48 GMT -5
Accelerationism is ostensibly political (because itโs born out of 20th century โContinentalโ philosophy, which has to at least present itself as overtly political). But it writes off agency as old-fashioned. So, I donโt know where the actual political theory is. Itโs an apolitical political theory? If itโs not apolitical, then it looks functionally identical to humdrum libertarian capitalism and the anti-democratic fringes of Silicon Valley.
I get the critique of post-Husserlian / post-Heideggerian continental philosophy being reflexively anti-modern (though itโs a caricature of Husserlโs actual work), anti-scientific, etc. I donโt see how it addresses that problem by flipping the chessboard and declaring that pretty much all of the preoccupations of post-war Marxism/Hegel-y philosophy โ colonization of the lifeworld, death of experience, temporal disorientation, fascism โ is just romanticizing the disenchantment of the world. It throws the baby out with the bathwater: A critique of capitalism without any justification for opposing capitalism.
|
|
meatballmaniac
Pulsating Member
Posts: 8,280 Join Date: Jul 12, 2019
Likes: 26,118
|
Post by meatballmaniac on May 6, 2023 14:49:15 GMT -5
What is the point of eating the burger if it is only to become poop in the end?
|
|
|
Post by Guybrush Threepwood on May 6, 2023 15:04:03 GMT -5
Why is it necessarily libertarian? Acceleration could occur perfectly well under a corporatist or state capitalist mode. Ironically, this would be more in keeping with your charge of fascism.
|
|
|
Post by โ๐ถ๐ๅ๐ฮทฤฎ๐แดแ on May 6, 2023 15:08:10 GMT -5
Because itโs accelerating capitalismโฆ?
|
|
|
Post by Guybrush Threepwood on May 6, 2023 15:08:45 GMT -5
Besides, plenty of alcoholics drink to mask their lives as destroyed by alcohol. No need to justify that particular ontology on any other grounds if it came down to it.
|
|
|
Post by Guybrush Threepwood on May 6, 2023 15:09:52 GMT -5
Because itโs accelerating capitalismโฆ? Sure it's an option - I take issue with the assertion it's the only one.
|
|
|
Post by โ๐ถ๐ๅ๐ฮทฤฎ๐แดแ on May 6, 2023 15:34:02 GMT -5
So far, nothing that was supposedly going to โaccelerateโ the demise of capitalism has actually done so. Is it the whole credo of accelerationism (of the โleftโ kind) that itโs counterproductive or pointless to advocate anything that impedes capitalism because it only results in preventing class antagonismโฆ?
Like, did NAFTA result in class solidarity between a Mexican and U.S. proletariat? Doesnโt seem so. It destroyed much of Mexicoโs agricultural petit bourgeois, but did that usher in a leftism? I donโt think so. Large multinational capitalist firms are eager to introduce advanced neural network data collection technologies into cities that lack the budget to adequately encrypt all that data. Is it stupid to take issue with that, since (1) data privacy is just a reflection of private bourgeois subjectivity and (2) it would impede the economic and technological growth necessary to destroy capitalism?
if you accelerate capitalism right now, you donโt get communism. Maybe some sort of neofeudalism.
|
|
spicydeath
Hard Member
Posts: 145 Join Date: Jun 28, 2018
Likes: 350
|
Post by spicydeath on May 6, 2023 15:44:09 GMT -5
That's neither an accurate nor useful characterization. If you accept the premise that capitalism is here to stay (maybe it's not) but that it's fundamentally untenable (maybe it isn't), 'accelerating' it to some other form of socioeconomic organization is not a particularly absurd or even invalid conclusion. To immediately assume that fascism would result does not bear out from the particular D&G analysis I was referencing, particularly because the 'deterritorializing' force they describe strikes me as way more destructive to the social organization and cohesion that would practicably be required. Or at least as I understand it. YMMV. Read the book - if you can get past the 'solar anus' and 'body without organs', it's a great read. Instead, if I have any tendency toward accelerationism (which I don't necessarily think I do), it would be within the context of what they describe as the 'limit' of capitalism as something that is both unreachable and yet totalizing. In the liberal West we seem only to be trying to break that limit, not employing it effectively. One could, in theory, accelerate those aspects of capitalism that destabilize and alienate to heighten tension for either awareness or even, at the risk of being cynical, innovation, while simultaneously incorporating other elements like UBI or AI market planning that mitigate the worst effects of our current troubles. I'm not seeing the point--why do we want to make things worse? While simultaneously doing what?
|
|
|
Post by โ๐ถ๐ๅ๐ฮทฤฎ๐แดแ on May 6, 2023 16:03:27 GMT -5
I think the idea is that all attempts to ameliorate capitalism (welfare states, nationalizing industries, outlawing/delaying adoption of technologies that displace workers, protectionist trade tariffs, etc.) only help prop up capitalism because they mollify class antagonisms. The intensification of capitalism will destroy capitalism. All seems a touch romantic and out-of-touch to me.
I'm fine with part of accelerationism that says, "Hey, a lot of hardcore left wing people are anti-science, anti-technology, etc. That's stupid, because those things are often very good. The disenchantment of the world wasn't a tragedy. Rational, scientific understanding is good."
But you don't have to go to accelerationism to find that. You could go to, like, Hegel. Which, ironically, is kind of what some of these people associated with accelerationism actually did (Negerestani wrote a book inspired heavily by Hegel and the Pittsburgh School, Brassier is going on about Sellars and Churchland, and Sellars is obviously influenced by Hegel).
Anyhow, there's shit to read and limited time to read it. What you all readin?
|
|
|
Post by Guybrush Threepwood on May 6, 2023 16:15:32 GMT -5
That's neither an accurate nor useful characterization. If you accept the premise that capitalism is here to stay (maybe it's not) but that it's fundamentally untenable (maybe it isn't), 'accelerating' it to some other form of socioeconomic organization is not a particularly absurd or even invalid conclusion. To immediately assume that fascism would result does not bear out from the particular D&G analysis I was referencing, particularly because the 'deterritorializing' force they describe strikes me as way more destructive to the social organization and cohesion that would practicably be required. Or at least as I understand it. YMMV. Read the book - if you can get past the 'solar anus' and 'body without organs', it's a great read. Instead, if I have any tendency toward accelerationism (which I don't necessarily think I do), it would be within the context of what they describe as the 'limit' of capitalism as something that is both unreachable and yet totalizing. In the liberal West we seem only to be trying to break that limit, not employing it effectively. One could, in theory, accelerate those aspects of capitalism that destabilize and alienate to heighten tension for either awareness or even, at the risk of being cynical, innovation, while simultaneously incorporating other elements like UBI or AI market planning that mitigate the worst effects of our current troubles. I'm not seeing the point--why do we want to make things worse? While simultaneously doing what?ย Well, the thought is if you make things worse you can break it for some alternative outcome. Which outcome? A better outcome? Maybe it's a proletariat revolution, maybe it's spears and huts, maybe it's ten thousand nuclear warheads irradiating all multicellular life from the surface of the planet. Various thinkers and geoups have their own goals, presumably. Remember, the entry point to this discussion was Fisher, Deleuze, and Guattari. Under that banner I see an opportunity for what could be construed as 'positive' acceleration due to capitalism's ability to absorb everything thrown at it. Who is to say what counts as destructive? Certainly your garden variety libertarian thinks universal healthcare is destructive. It's not a controlled experiment and that is part of the 'fun'.
|
|
|
Post by โ๐ถ๐ๅ๐ฮทฤฎ๐แดแ on May 10, 2023 16:20:17 GMT -5
Ian Hacking has died
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0 Join Date: Jan 1, 1970
|
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2023 18:57:20 GMT -5
reading this before school starts and I have to read a bunch of art crap!!
|
|
|
Post by Al gave some, some gave Al on May 31, 2023 18:59:07 GMT -5
Serious question: why is this other guy writing about Marx's theory?
Be yourself.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0 Join Date: Jan 1, 1970
|
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2023 19:00:34 GMT -5
Serious question: why is another guy writing Marx's theory? Be yourself. well wise guy he covers that in the introduction!!
|
|
|
Post by Al gave some, some gave Al on May 31, 2023 19:01:35 GMT -5
Serious question: why is another guy writing Marx's theory? Be yourself. well wise guy he covers that in the introduction!! im sure it's a very good book!
|
|
Mr. Dingle Foot
Pulsating Member
Posts: 6,993 Join Date: Jul 2, 2018
Likes: 20,034
|
Post by Mr. Dingle Foot on Jun 19, 2023 8:08:24 GMT -5
temujin โ๐ถ๐ๅ๐ฮทฤฎ๐แดแ @sk I just wanted to share my (almost) finished literature list that I asked ya'll about earlier. On the printed version, I will be sure to add to the "BiL Intellectual Rockers". I wasn't able to find many videos that worked as an introduction, so if anyone has any suggestions, I am all ears. Decolonization and Europe Aldrich, Robert. "Colonial museums in a postcolonial Europe." African and Black Diaspora: An International Journal 2, no. 2 (2009): 137-156. Collins, Michael. โDecolonization.โ In The Encyclopedia of Empire, 1โ15. John Wiley & Sons, Ltd, 2015. doi.org/10.1002/9781118455074.wbeoe360Eyerman, Ron, and Giuseppe Sciortino, eds. The cultural trauma of decolonization: Colonial returnees in the national imagination. Springer Nature, 2019. Gildea, Robert. Empires of the mind: The colonial past and the politics of the present. Cambridge University Press, 2019. Jansen, Jan C., and Jรผrgen Osterhammel. Decolonization. Princeton University Press, 2017. Jerรณnimo, Miguel Bandeira, and Antรณnio Costa Pinto, eds. The ends of European colonial empires: Cases and comparisons. Springer, 2016. Loomba, Ania. Colonialism/postcolonialism. Vol. 178. London: Routledge, 1998. Sรจbe, Berny, and Matthew G. Stanard, eds. Decolonising Europe?: Popular Responses to the End of Empire. Routledge, 2020. Stanard, Matthew G. "The colonial past is never dead. Itโs not even past: Histories of empire, decolonization, and European cultures after 1945." European History Yearbook 17 (2016): 151-174. Stoler, Ann Laura. Duress: Imperial durabilities in our times. Duke University Press, 2016. Thomas, Martin, and Andrew Thompson, eds. The Oxford Handbook of the Ends of Empire. Oxford Handbooks, 2019.
Germany Eckert, Andreas. "The First Postcolonial Nation in Europe? The End of the German Empire." In The Oxford Handbook of the Ends of Empire, eds. Thomas, Martin, and Andrew Thompson. Oxford Handbooks, 2018. 102-122. Fitzpatrick, Matthew P. "Colonialism, postcolonialism, and decolonization." Central European History 51, no. 1 (2018): 83-89. Schilling, Britta. Postcolonial Germany: Memories of Empire in a Decolonized Nation. OUP Oxford, 2014.
Portugal Jerรณnimo, Miguel Bandeira, and Josรฉ Pedro Monteiro. "Colonial labour internationalized: Portugal and the decolonization momentum (1945โ1975)." The International History Review 42, no. 3 (2020): 485-504. Kalter, Christoph. "Building Nations After Empire: Post-Imperial Migrations to Portugal in a Western European Context." Contemporary European History (2022): 1-22. Reis, Bruno C., and Pedro A. Oliveira. "The power and limits of cultural myths in Portugal's search for a post-Imperial role." The International History Review 40, no. 3 (2018): 631-653.
Netherlands Doolan, Paul MM. Collective memory and the Dutch East Indies: unremembering decolonization. Amsterdam University Press, 2021. Houben, Vincent JH. "The unmastered past: decolonization and Dutch collective memory." European Review 8, no. 1 (2000): 77-85. Oostindie, Gert. Postcolonial Netherlands: Sixty-five years of forgetting, commemorating, silencing. Amsterdam University Press, 2011.
United Kingdom
|
|
spicydeath
Hard Member
Posts: 145 Join Date: Jun 28, 2018
Likes: 350
|
Post by spicydeath on Jun 20, 2023 0:45:00 GMT -5
Serious question: why is this other guy writing about Marx's theory? Be yourself. wow
|
|
|
Post by โ๐ถ๐ๅ๐ฮทฤฎ๐แดแ on Jun 22, 2023 22:10:29 GMT -5
gotta do some deep cleaning of a new apartment and shit like that, and I feel like I haven't been getting enough reading in. Any solid history, politics, philosophy, science, whatever podcast recommendations? As long as its not bird's view critique of ideology grand cultural theory type shit, I'm interested.
|
|