☭POLITICS☭: Election Season Hell

[Deleted]

Jun 16, 2020 16:05:17 GMT -5 refill said:

Jun 16, 2020 12:55:15 GMT -5 @spsp said:

Is this like photoshopped or something? Like...I never put stickers on my car because I spend so much toiling over whether I want every other motorist on the road to know me as ___________ guy, that I just say nevermind. Why would you want to be broadcasting the most tepid possible take haha.

Idk but it rules

[pbcookies]

Jun 16, 2020 16:05:17 GMT -5 refill said:

Jun 16, 2020 12:55:15 GMT -5 @spsp said:

Is this like photoshopped or something? Like...I never put stickers on my car because I spend so much toiling over whether I want every other motorist on the road to know me as ___________ guy, that I just say nevermind. Why would you want to be broadcasting the most tepid possible take haha.

forgot I took this the other day:

[Deleted]

How are you comparing a police union to a nation state?

[pbcookies]

Jun 16, 2020 16:10:10 GMT -5 @spsp said:

How are you comparing a police union to a nation state?

shut up

[DAYMAN]

Jun 16, 2020 16:05:17 GMT -5 refill said:

Jun 16, 2020 12:55:15 GMT -5 @spsp said:

Is this like photoshopped or something? Like...I never put stickers on my car because I spend so much toiling over whether I want every other motorist on the road to know me as ___________ guy, that I just say nevermind. Why would you want to be broadcasting the most tepid possible take haha.

I have an Obituary sticker on my car and people can know me as that guy.

[boundforgloryhole]

http://instagram.com/p/CBTqis9nWpG

[itii]

Jun 16, 2020 16:09:46 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

Jun 16, 2020 16:05:17 GMT -5 refill said:

Is this like photoshopped or something? Like...I never put stickers on my car because I spend so much toiling over whether I want every other motorist on the road to know me as ___________ guy, that I just say nevermind. Why would you want to be broadcasting the most tepid possible take haha.

forgot I took this the other day:

Of course, karen drives a buick. That is a woman who stays on brand.

[pbcookies]

Jun 16, 2020 16:18:02 GMT -5 itii said:

Jun 16, 2020 16:09:46 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

forgot I took this the other day:

Of course, karen drives a buick. That is a woman who stays on brand.

It's also a GS.  310 horsepower to make a quick getaway after telling a grocery worker to go back to their country for not double-bagging her White Zinfandel

[itii]

Jun 16, 2020 16:20:26 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

Jun 16, 2020 16:18:02 GMT -5 itii said:

Of course, karen drives a buick. That is a woman who stays on brand.

It's also a GS.  310 horsepower to make a quick getaway after telling a grocery worker to go back to their country for not double-bagging her White Zinfandel

True story: I can explain how an internal combustion engine works but that is literally the only thing I understand about cars.

[pbcookies]

Jun 16, 2020 16:26:49 GMT -5 itii said:

Jun 16, 2020 16:20:26 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

It's also a GS.  310 horsepower to make a quick getaway after telling a grocery worker to go back to their country for not double-bagging her White Zinfandel

True story: I can explain how an internal combustion engine works but that is literally the only thing I understand about cars.

there's not much more to it than that

first thing I usually do in the morning if a coworker already has a car on a lift is ask what's wrong with it, then when they start to say I go "It's got no wheels on it, that's da problem!"

never gets old

[itii]

Jun 16, 2020 15:55:33 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

Jun 16, 2020 15:54:44 GMT -5 itii said:

How many people with access to the internet do y'all think are actually willing to die for their political beliefs?

I mean most aren't even willing to vote for them, so

anyways back to this.

Trigger warning: bleakness ahead.

It's something I've been thinking about since "reskinning of the lesser evil election vs actual change" came up last night. Good faith engagement is important for all exchanges and social advancement, but that also starts with personal understanding and I really question where that starts in an honest political conversation about social engagement and progress.

When people start talking about disengaging from the current political system and advocating letting things get worse (or simply waiting around) to galvanize the oppressed, I wonder if they've honestly processed what that means for the oppressed vs what it means for themselves. Life is hard and it's physically and emotionally impossible to stay doing social outreach and political engagement constantly, but advocating for situations in which people are going to die or continue to suffer seems at odds with being on their side. It seems especially at odds when it becomes a conversation about physical conflict against the state as an avenue to change. If people can't stay committed to organizing their own community, in person and without a bubble, what makes them think they're up to risking their life in an armed conflict? Do they honestly think the revolution will be easier than what they're doing now? If that's not what they're advocating, do they think letting the political machine lock out methods of change and progress is going to be swept away by vote when enough people finally decide to vote? That doesn't seem feasible and more likely to perpetuate a longer cycle of power accumulation for the wealthy with the occasional doling out of useless concessions to placate the masses. 

It feels like so much of political conversations are just unactionable conversations about political theory, and that turns into ways to absolve one's self from participation because it's not immediately gratifying while passing the bill to the people that are already suffering.

Sorry for interrupting anyone's grilling. 

[Deleted]

Liberation hurts

electronicbookreview.com/essay/liberation-hurts-an-interview-with-slavoj-zizek/

[Deleted]

On the "divide" between theory and practice

www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-1/mswv1_16.htm

[itii]

Jun 16, 2020 17:15:53 GMT -5 @spsp said:

Liberation hurts

electronicbookreview.com/essay/liberation-hurts-an-interview-with-slavoj-zizek/

which is why I asked

Jun 16, 2020 15:54:44 GMT -5 itii said:

How many people with access to the internet do y'all think are actually willing to die for their political beliefs?

[mazzario]

Jun 16, 2020 14:43:52 GMT -5 Sorley Boy said:

Jun 16, 2020 14:10:03 GMT -5 @sami said:

you truly do not know what imperialism is

What is it called when a foreign country occupies a weaker country's territory in order to frustrate their policies?

NATO

[pbcookies]

Jun 16, 2020 17:10:29 GMT -5 itii said:

Jun 16, 2020 15:55:33 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

I mean most aren't even willing to vote for them, so

anyways back to this.

Trigger warning: bleakness ahead.

It's something I've been thinking about since "reskinning of the lesser evil election vs actual change" came up last night. Good faith engagement is important for all exchanges and social advancement, but that also starts with personal understanding and I really question where that starts in an honest political conversation about social engagement and progress.

When people start talking about disengaging from the current political system and advocating letting things get worse (or simply waiting around) to galvanize the oppressed, I wonder if they've honestly processed what that means for the oppressed vs what it means for themselves. Life is hard and it's physically and emotionally impossible to stay doing social outreach and political engagement constantly, but advocating for situations in which people are going to die or continue to suffer seems at odds with being on their side. It seems especially at odds when it becomes a conversation about physical conflict against the state as an avenue to change. If people can't stay committed to organizing their own community, in person and without a bubble, what makes them think they're up to risking their life in an armed conflict? Do they honestly think the revolution will be easier than what they're doing now? If that's not what they're advocating, do they think letting the political machine lock out methods of change and progress is going to be swept away by vote when enough people finally decide to vote? That doesn't seem feasible and more likely to perpetuate a longer cycle of power accumulation for the wealthy with the occasional doling out of useless concessions to placate the masses. 

It feels like so much of political conversations are just unactionable conversations about political theory, and that turns into ways to absolve one's self from participation because it's not immediately gratifying while passing the bill to the people that are already suffering.

Sorry for interrupting anyone's grilling. 

I predict you're about to get dragged for this, but I am with you completely here, and it seems strange to me that the cohort that claims to be about "historical materialism/material conditions" refuses to engage with a political process in which those things are on the line for marginalized people, right here right now, and instead chooses to engage with abstractions/ideals.  I actually accept the utility of those same abstractions as a lens for reworking our politics and how we treat people, but it doesn't excuse allowing suffering to escalate on the off chance it will bring about radical change.

[refill]

Jun 16, 2020 17:15:53 GMT -5 @spsp said:

Liberation hurts

electronicbookreview.com/essay/liberation-hurts-an-interview-with-slavoj-zizek/

I thought Zizek was persona non grata for y'all?

[itii]

Jun 16, 2020 17:21:57 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

Jun 16, 2020 17:10:29 GMT -5 itii said:

blah blah blah

I predict you're about to get dragged for this, but I am with you completely here, and it seems strange to me that the cohort that claims to be about "historical materialism/material conditions" refuses to engage with a political process in which those things are on the line for marginalized people, right here right now, and instead chooses to engage with abstractions/ideals.  I actually accept the utility of those same abstractions as a lens for reworking our politics and how we treat people, but it doesn't excuse allowing suffering to escalate on the off chance it will bring about radical change.

I took time off from tv and internet last week, because I was emotionally exhausted from watching people die and my friends crying about shit I couldn't and can't stop. I think that should allow enough emotional fortitude to withstand being told I'm uneducated about how politics or people work on the internet.

[Deleted]

Jun 16, 2020 17:21:57 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

Jun 16, 2020 17:10:29 GMT -5 itii said:

anyways back to this.

Trigger warning: bleakness ahead.

It's something I've been thinking about since "reskinning of the lesser evil election vs actual change" came up last night. Good faith engagement is important for all exchanges and social advancement, but that also starts with personal understanding and I really question where that starts in an honest political conversation about social engagement and progress.

When people start talking about disengaging from the current political system and advocating letting things get worse (or simply waiting around) to galvanize the oppressed, I wonder if they've honestly processed what that means for the oppressed vs what it means for themselves. Life is hard and it's physically and emotionally impossible to stay doing social outreach and political engagement constantly, but advocating for situations in which people are going to die or continue to suffer seems at odds with being on their side. It seems especially at odds when it becomes a conversation about physical conflict against the state as an avenue to change. If people can't stay committed to organizing their own community, in person and without a bubble, what makes them think they're up to risking their life in an armed conflict? Do they honestly think the revolution will be easier than what they're doing now? If that's not what they're advocating, do they think letting the political machine lock out methods of change and progress is going to be swept away by vote when enough people finally decide to vote? That doesn't seem feasible and more likely to perpetuate a longer cycle of power accumulation for the wealthy with the occasional doling out of useless concessions to placate the masses. 

It feels like so much of political conversations are just unactionable conversations about political theory, and that turns into ways to absolve one's self from participation because it's not immediately gratifying while passing the bill to the people that are already suffering.

Sorry for interrupting anyone's grilling. 

I predict you're about to get dragged for this, but I am with you completely here, and it seems strange to me that the cohort that claims to be about "historical materialism/material conditions" refuses to engage with a political process in which those things are on the line for marginalized people, right here right now, and instead chooses to engage with abstractions/ideals.  I actually accept the utility of those same abstractions as a lens for reworking our politics and how we treat people, but it doesn't excuse allowing suffering to escalate on the off chance it will bring about radical change.

What are you gonna do when marginalized people who believe in what you call "abstractions/ideals"? This current movement is being led by black, brown, trans, indigenous folks who understand that neither party is a road to true change. It is literally marginalized people who are on the front lines preaching radical shit. Nobody believes in accelerationism. The conditions are not ripe for it and everybody knows it. it's a non convo. But people recognize the Dem Party and Biden, now, are where causes go to die. My generation experienced that during Obama and I promise it won't be better under Biden. Joe's record is abysmal for all marginalized groups. It's really not that far off from Trumps.

What people are doing though is organizing in their communities. We're honestly not waiting for shit. We know nothing is coming for us with a Biden or Trump presidency except more hardship. Voting is not going to get us anywhere. At this point, vote all you want, but don't speak over marginalized groups who are actually organizing and working towards a different world. Like, I'm embarrassed to say this, but I'm an organizer. It is the people I organize with (almost all from marginalized groups) who are emphatically against Biden, but also most passionate organizers you'll meet. Our political theory guides us to do actual work. 

I know this was a ramble but I hope there's something okay in there. 

[Deleted]

And I hope that doesn't come off condescending at all. I'm just super hyped up on coffee and typing 2038429348 miles a minute. But I really appreciate your post.

[Porch Honky]

Jun 2, 2020 12:32:27 GMT -5 killthekool said:

Let’s not get into this charade again. Vote if you want. Don’t vote if you feel like the system is done. Your vote really doesn’t matter anyway. Same shit

That being said, I prefer y'all to do the bare minimum and vote local.

[FEMA Sniper]

Jun 16, 2020 17:44:15 GMT -5 Porch Honky said:

Jun 2, 2020 12:32:27 GMT -5 killthekool said:

Let’s not get into this charade again. Vote if you want. Don’t vote if you feel like the system is done. Your vote really doesn’t matter anyway. Same shit

That being said, I prefer y'all to do the bare minimum and vote local.

That's all I do. I'm in California where my national vote really doesn't matter because electoral politics are just so awesome like that.

[itii]

Jun 16, 2020 17:35:49 GMT -5 @sami said:

Jun 16, 2020 17:21:57 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

I predict you're about to get dragged for this, but I am with you completely here, and it seems strange to me that the cohort that claims to be about "historical materialism/material conditions" refuses to engage with a political process in which those things are on the line for marginalized people, right here right now, and instead chooses to engage with abstractions/ideals.  I actually accept the utility of those same abstractions as a lens for reworking our politics and how we treat people, but it doesn't excuse allowing suffering to escalate on the off chance it will bring about radical change.

What are you gonna do when marginalized people who believe in what you call "abstractions/ideals"? This current movement is being led by black, brown, trans, indigenous folks who understand that neither party is a road to true change. It is literally marginalized people who are on the front lines preaching radical shit. Nobody believes in accelerationism. The conditions are not ripe for it and everybody knows it. it's a non convo. But people recognize the Dem Party and Biden, now, are where causes go to die. My generation experienced that during Obama and I promise it won't be better under Biden. Joe's record is abysmal for all marginalized groups. It's really not that far off from Trumps.

What people are doing though is organizing in their communities. We're honestly not waiting for shit. We know nothing is coming for us with a Biden or Trump presidency except more hardship. Voting is not going to get us anywhere. At this point, vote all you want, but don't speak over marginalized groups who are actually organizing and working towards a different world. Like, I'm embarrassed to say this, but I'm an organizer. It is the people I organize with (almost all from marginalized groups) who are emphatically against Biden, but also most passionate organizers you'll meet. Our political theory guides us to do actual work. 

I know this was a ramble but I hope there's something okay in there. 

Not to tell you how to feel, but you should prolly be proud to be an organizer. Someone of action for other people, with other people.

[refill]

www.forbes.com/sites/alexreimer/2020/06/11/lebron-james-voting-rights-group-is-most-important-athlete-political-campaign-ever/#107940161ce9

Hoping LeBron's group can get more people involved in local elections. It's the only political thing I've been optimistic about since I don't even know when.

[pbcookies]

Jun 16, 2020 17:35:49 GMT -5 @sami said:

Jun 16, 2020 17:21:57 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

I predict you're about to get dragged for this, but I am with you completely here, and it seems strange to me that the cohort that claims to be about "historical materialism/material conditions" refuses to engage with a political process in which those things are on the line for marginalized people, right here right now, and instead chooses to engage with abstractions/ideals.  I actually accept the utility of those same abstractions as a lens for reworking our politics and how we treat people, but it doesn't excuse allowing suffering to escalate on the off chance it will bring about radical change.

What are you gonna do when marginalized people who believe in what you call "abstractions/ideals"? This current movement is being led by black, brown, trans, indigenous folks who understand that neither party is a road to true change. It is literally marginalized people who are on the front lines preaching radical shit. Nobody believes in accelerationism. The conditions are not ripe for it and everybody knows it. it's a non convo. But people recognize the Dem Party and Biden, now, are where causes go to die. My generation experienced that during Obama and I promise it won't be better under Biden. Joe's record is abysmal for all marginalized groups. It's really not that far off from Trumps.

What people are doing though is organizing in their communities. We're honestly not waiting for shit. We know nothing is coming for us with a Biden or Trump presidency except more hardship. Voting is not going to get us anywhere. At this point, vote all you want, but don't speak over marginalized groups who are actually organizing and working towards a different world. Like, I'm embarrassed to say this, but I'm an organizer. It is the people I organize with (almost all from marginalized groups) who are emphatically against Biden, but also most passionate organizers you'll meet. Our political theory guides us to do actual work. 

I know this was a ramble but I hope there's something okay in there. 

I have no problem with any of this, and I admire anyone that organizes in their community or even just leaves the house to participate in their community.

My problem is when people encourage total disengagement from electoral politics, or draw false equivalencies i.e. between Biden and Trump.  I mean, for those of you who really believe we would get the exact same outcome if either of them won, I would say I can't stop you from believing that but I see absolutely no reason to agree with you.  I don't know specifically if you are doing this, but it seems like the tenor of this thread a lot of the time.

Of course ideals and abstractions must underlie any theory of change and the actions necessary to enact it, but in my apinion it is only the most extreme idealism that makes someone think their individual vote is such a precious reflection of their identity that they refuse to do it even if it means *mitigating* suffering, even to a tiny degree.

[Deleted]

Jun 16, 2020 17:45:44 GMT -5 itii said:

Jun 16, 2020 17:35:49 GMT -5 @sami said:

What are you gonna do when marginalized people who believe in what you call "abstractions/ideals"? This current movement is being led by black, brown, trans, indigenous folks who understand that neither party is a road to true change. It is literally marginalized people who are on the front lines preaching radical shit. Nobody believes in accelerationism. The conditions are not ripe for it and everybody knows it. it's a non convo. But people recognize the Dem Party and Biden, now, are where causes go to die. My generation experienced that during Obama and I promise it won't be better under Biden. Joe's record is abysmal for all marginalized groups. It's really not that far off from Trumps.

What people are doing though is organizing in their communities. We're honestly not waiting for shit. We know nothing is coming for us with a Biden or Trump presidency except more hardship. Voting is not going to get us anywhere. At this point, vote all you want, but don't speak over marginalized groups who are actually organizing and working towards a different world. Like, I'm embarrassed to say this, but I'm an organizer. It is the people I organize with (almost all from marginalized groups) who are emphatically against Biden, but also most passionate organizers you'll meet. Our political theory guides us to do actual work. 

I know this was a ramble but I hope there's something okay in there. 

Not to tell you how to feel, but you should prolly be proud to be an organizer. Someone of action for other people, with other people.

Thank you. I'm just terrified of sounding like I'm boosting myself because it's not the point. It's just a moment where a TON of people are joining orgs and organizing. It's really incredible to see first hand the cool shit people do that nobody gets to see. 

[Porch Honky]

www.inquirer.com/news/nikil-saval-rick-krajewski-progressive-2020-pennsylvania-primary-harrisburg-20200616.html?outputType=amp

[pbcookies]

Jun 16, 2020 17:42:44 GMT -5 @sami said:

And I hope that doesn't come off condescending at all. I'm just super hyped up on coffee and typing 2038429348 miles a minute. But I really appreciate your post.

I appreciate you too, if there were no one calling out the inequities of our society from a broad/civilizational view, it would be way more difficult to put immediate issues into context.

[FEMA Sniper]

Jun 16, 2020 17:46:54 GMT -5 refill said:

www.forbes.com/sites/alexreimer/2020/06/11/lebron-james-voting-rights-group-is-most-important-athlete-political-campaign-ever/#107940161ce9

Hoping LeBron's group can get more people involved in local elections. It's the only political thing I've been optimistic about since I don't even know when.

You don't have to be a fan of electoral politics or believe in voting to know that its completely rigged against the poor and minorities/indigenous communities.

[Porch Honky]