Sorley Boy
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Post by Sorley Boy on Oct 27, 2019 18:38:13 GMT -5
even assuming this is true, which it isn't, considering china repeatedly falsifies emissions data (see: here, here, and here), if you factor overseas investment and infrastructure projects like the belt and road initiative, of which 126 countries who currently o-count for 28% of global emissions are a part of, china is on track to be responsible for 66% of global emissions by 2050. china is investing trillions of dollars into poor countries across the world who don't abide by environmental regulations and chinese companies who operate there are not required to follow climate guidelines. but have fun pretending the chinese government has any shred of credibility. you must have a lovely social credit score. So you just gonna act like Chinese emissions aren’t directly related to the fact that they produce most of the worlds goods... because of capitalism. It's funny how China is a communist country when its convenient for the purposes of one argument, and a capitalist country when its convenient for another.
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anointed
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Post by anointed on Oct 27, 2019 18:38:52 GMT -5
So you just gonna act like Chinese emissions aren’t directly related to the fact that they produce most of the worlds goods... because of capitalism. It's funny how China is a communist country when its convenient for the purposes of one argument, and a capitalist country when its convenient for another. for real, maybe china should make up its mind on what it wants to be
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 18:40:05 GMT -5
It has a communist government which is building socialism out of capitalism with commodity production and all the rest of it. It is not yet communist. Pretty simple.
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Sorley Boy
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Post by Sorley Boy on Oct 27, 2019 18:41:55 GMT -5
I guess it's simple if you're gullible enough to believe that.
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anointed
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Post by anointed on Oct 27, 2019 18:43:41 GMT -5
It has a communist government which is building socialism out of capitalism with commodity production and all the rest of it. It is not yet communist. Pretty simple.
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roofies
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Post by roofies on Oct 27, 2019 18:44:20 GMT -5
China is ending climate change via capitalism. This groundbreaking.
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anointed
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Post by anointed on Oct 27, 2019 18:46:12 GMT -5
looks like china is the fencewalker all along
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 18:46:42 GMT -5
You'd be much more gullible to believe you just go do a revolution and you've instantly got a communism on your hands.
And what they're doing via capitalism is building their production in order to provide for themselves. It's the accumulation process.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 18:49:24 GMT -5
They've got plans to turn Shenzhen into a socialist demonstration site. Time will tell what that looks like.
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roofies
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Post by roofies on Oct 27, 2019 18:49:26 GMT -5
I also learned today that the EVIL Al Qaeda still exists. So theres no way the head of ISIS couple possibly have been killed.
Sorry, but some of you commies really lack logic. But then again communism hasn’t been too kind on intellectuals outside party lines in the past, so I guess I’m not surprised.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 18:51:07 GMT -5
Do you guys honestly believe that you can have an entire structure, turn it into something else entirely and not retain at least some portion of the old ways for some time? That's pretty gullible if you ask me.
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svejk
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Post by svejk on Oct 27, 2019 18:53:47 GMT -5
true communism is just one more dictatorship of the proletariat away. don’t worry, we’ll get it right next time!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 18:54:26 GMT -5
The thing with China is they are very far off from a transition in many areas. And that's exactly the criticism you could levy against it -- how soon is enough? Importantly, they have the communist government in power and it remains to be seen how that transition will continue to look.
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2006 Gucci Mane
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Post by 2006 Gucci Mane on Oct 27, 2019 18:55:44 GMT -5
lied about killing the leader of ISIS The best is all the vids of Trump saying "stop saying Obama killed Bin Laden, it was the Seals". Or saying nobody but him knew about Bin Laden before 9/11 which is an even more delusional lie. Alternate facts babaay!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 18:55:46 GMT -5
Heh, whatever.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 18:57:14 GMT -5
You know what, after some consideration... Things are pretty good! They'll always be good and keep getting better. I read Pinker and Gladwell and they're pretty smart guys hanging out with other smart guys. There's no logical choice here. We must vote for Beto.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 18:58:27 GMT -5
You guys just want China to be poor and backwards like they were before their revolution and if they try to accumulate to provide for themselves, you're still mad about it. Be peasants forever!
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svejk
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Post by svejk on Oct 27, 2019 19:00:44 GMT -5
it remains to be seen how that transition will continue to look. if the last 70 years of violent repression are any indication, i’d say it looks super promising
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik on Oct 27, 2019 19:03:18 GMT -5
You guys just want China to be poor and backwards like they were before their revolution and if they try to accumulate to provide for themselves, you're still mad about it. Be peasants forever! I long for the days of the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom
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theywalkedinline
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Post by theywalkedinline on Oct 27, 2019 19:06:11 GMT -5
You guys just want China to be poor and backwards like they were before their revolution and if they try to accumulate to provide for themselves, you're still mad about it. Be peasants forever! Does accumulation include oppression and theft of natural resources and labor in Africa? It seems like they're following the Western or American playbook more than the Marx playbook.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 19:07:57 GMT -5
Genuine question for y'all. So what do we do? Like, we stay the course? The enlightenment view of progress got us so far but maybe it's a similar ideological trapping to believe progress is linear? Especially when material interests moving forward with the ecological crisis contradicts capitalist production.
I'm dumb so please tell me what to do and think.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 19:10:01 GMT -5
You guys just want China to be poor and backwards like they were before their revolution and if they try to accumulate to provide for themselves, you're still mad about it. Be peasants forever! Does accumulation include oppression and theft of natural resources and labor in Africa? It seems like they're following the Western or American playbook more than the Marx playbook. Bro... the U.S. builds military bases and occupies oil fields. The IMF lends loans with stipulations of dictating policy if nations are unable to pay back. China builds infrastructure and writes off debt.
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roofies
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Post by roofies on Oct 27, 2019 19:12:16 GMT -5
Every time there’s a legit criticism of communism or China, you guys do the old “b-b-but the US and capitalism” deflection. We get it. Answer the damn question at hand. Say you’re about it or not.
China ski occupies oil fields in the Middle East and Africa.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 19:12:47 GMT -5
Because I'm trying to show the difference of the two. Their orientation is important.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 19:14:01 GMT -5
I answered the question earlier when I explained you can't just structurally shift to a new system overnight, entirely. With that comes all the ills of capitalism that still remain -- why would I have to demonstrate what we already know? That's why I focus on which direction their actions are oriented. Because you have to actually engage with the world, without idealism as it is. You have to build progress out of what already exists.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 19:14:08 GMT -5
I got a whiff.
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roofies
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Post by roofies on Oct 27, 2019 19:14:10 GMT -5
Because I'm trying to show the difference of the two. Their orientation is important. The differences are purely ideological.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 19:14:49 GMT -5
Because I'm trying to show the difference of the two. Their orientation is important. The differences are purely ideological. How is building infrastructure and writing off debt ideological?
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Sorley Boy
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Post by Sorley Boy on Oct 27, 2019 19:15:42 GMT -5
You'd be much more gullible to believe you just go do a revolution and you've instantly got a communism on your hands. And what they're doing via capitalism is building their production in order to provide for themselves. It's the accumulation process. I hope the Lambo dealership in Beijing didn't sign a long lease.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 19:16:23 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean it's probably not great if they have a Lambo dealership, but to focus solely on that isn't really a structural analysis.
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