☭POLITICS☭: Election Season Hell

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2020 20:53:29 GMT -5 roofies said:

Jun 18, 2020 20:49:16 GMT -5 @finkleiseinhorn said:

Because it sounds really interesting, some of us are into the history of the country and it’s a fascinating first hand look at somewhere not a lot of people get to see? Crazy that people have different interests, I know.

koryogroup.com/tours/dprk-north-korea/group

www.youngpioneertours.com/north-korea-tours/

Of course I'd love to check it out unfiltered. But you're seeing what they want you to see, and even that is an engineered show. A fake sample of reality. I dunno why anyone would think that's a good way to base your beliefs about how it really is.

do you think when people visit america they go to under funded areas in chicago, los angeles, new york? talk about a fake sample of reality. 

[Talentless Elvis Costello]

Jun 18, 2020 20:51:13 GMT -5 DAYMAN said:

Jun 18, 2020 13:35:25 GMT -5 roofies said:

I'm so confused and lost.

Pages later, this holds true. I have nothing to contribute because I have basically an everyday understanding of current events and this shit right here feels like I stepped into an intense grad-level debate where one of the guys looked at the cleavage of the other guy's sister.

wait, Ben Shapiro posts here?

[Sorley Boy]

I would be willing to send Sean on a yearlong North Korean potato farming experience. Not so much an unearned vacation.

[Deleted]

Thank you! Very kind

[roofies]

Jun 18, 2020 20:57:34 GMT -5 @sami said:

Jun 18, 2020 20:53:29 GMT -5 roofies said:

Of course I'd love to check it out unfiltered. But you're seeing what they want you to see, and even that is an engineered show. A fake sample of reality. I dunno why anyone would think that's a good way to base your beliefs about how it really is.

do you think when people visit america they go to under funded areas in chicago, los angeles, new york? talk about a fake sample of reality. 

No, but it's not because they arent allowed to. And if they wanted to, they could. Really not a good comparison. 

[itii]

Jun 18, 2020 20:53:29 GMT -5 roofies said:

Jun 18, 2020 20:49:16 GMT -5 @finkleiseinhorn said:

Because it sounds really interesting, some of us are into the history of the country and it’s a fascinating first hand look at somewhere not a lot of people get to see? Crazy that people have different interests, I know.

koryogroup.com/tours/dprk-north-korea/group

www.youngpioneertours.com/north-korea-tours/

Of course I'd love to check it out unfiltered. But you're seeing what they want you to see, and even that is an engineered show. A fake sample of reality. I dunno why anyone would think that's a good way to base your beliefs about how it really is.

Because, ideally, you'd be able to better parse the multiple viewpoints you've taken data from. You're never going to get a full idea of a country or a city, because you're never going to be able to see the full spectrum, from the poorest and most oppressed to the richest and most insulated. Actually visiting still allows you be more critical. Even if you only get to see an orchestrated show, you should still be able to see the seems and know there's a back stage.

Discouraging people from exploring their interests and other cultures just seems like a bad idea.

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2020 20:53:29 GMT -5 roofies said:

Jun 18, 2020 20:49:16 GMT -5 @finkleiseinhorn said:

Because it sounds really interesting, some of us are into the history of the country and it’s a fascinating first hand look at somewhere not a lot of people get to see? Crazy that people have different interests, I know.

koryogroup.com/tours/dprk-north-korea/group

www.youngpioneertours.com/north-korea-tours/

Of course I'd love to check it out unfiltered. But you're seeing what they want you to see, and even that is an engineered show. A fake sample of reality. I dunno why anyone would think that's a good way to base your beliefs about how it really is.

where can you go in the world that is "unfiltered?" Not sure what makes DPRK any less "reality."

[itii]

Jun 18, 2020 20:51:13 GMT -5 DAYMAN said:

Jun 18, 2020 13:35:25 GMT -5 roofies said:

I'm so confused and lost.

Pages later, this holds true. I have nothing to contribute because I have basically an everyday understanding of current events and this shit right here feels like I stepped into an intense grad-level debate where one of the guys looked at the cleavage of the other guy's sister.

This thread is definitely the worst post-grad degree party ever.

[roofies]

Jun 18, 2020 21:03:08 GMT -5 @spsp said:

Jun 18, 2020 20:53:29 GMT -5 roofies said:

Of course I'd love to check it out unfiltered. But you're seeing what they want you to see, and even that is an engineered show. A fake sample of reality. I dunno why anyone would think that's a good way to base your beliefs about how it really is.

where can you go in the world that is "unfiltered?" Not sure what makes DPRK any less "reality."

Its literally a guided tour and you must follow a strict line of rules. You are not allowed to go off to any area they government doesnt want you to see, which is the vast majority of the rest of the country.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be an experience. I'm saying it's manufactured. Why do you think that is? 

[DAYMAN]

Jun 18, 2020 20:58:38 GMT -5 Sorley Boy said:

I would be willing to send Sean on a yearlong North Korean potato farming experience. Not so much an unearned vacation.

I DO like potatoes...

[itii]

Jun 18, 2020 21:09:26 GMT -5 DAYMAN said:

Jun 18, 2020 20:58:38 GMT -5 Sorley Boy said:

I would be willing to send Sean on a yearlong North Korean potato farming experience. Not so much an unearned vacation.

I DO like potatoes...

wait until you find out "farming" was a typo...

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2020 21:09:01 GMT -5 roofies said:

Jun 18, 2020 21:03:08 GMT -5 @spsp said:

where can you go in the world that is "unfiltered?" Not sure what makes DPRK any less "reality."

Its literally a guided tour and you must follow a strict line of rules. You are not allowed to go off to any area they government doesnt want you to see, which is the vast majority of the rest of the country.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be an experience. I'm saying it's manufactured. Why do you think that is? 

i mean a guided tour isnt an ideal experience for a trip but its not really about "my" experience. Cant say I blame the country for being extra cautious of Americans considering it's recent history. What I don't understand is Americans don't seem to have a problem with Vietnam which was a similar situation as the Korean war, just with a different outcome.

[pbcookies]

Jun 18, 2020 20:57:34 GMT -5 @sami said:

Jun 18, 2020 20:53:29 GMT -5 roofies said:

Of course I'd love to check it out unfiltered. But you're seeing what they want you to see, and even that is an engineered show. A fake sample of reality. I dunno why anyone would think that's a good way to base your beliefs about how it really is.

do you think when people visit america they go to under funded areas in chicago, los angeles, new york? talk about a fake sample of reality. 

Three pages ago you were telling people not to tokenize Iranians for abstract political purposes.

If it's our ethnicities and personal experiences that give us credibility on these matters, I would ask you take your own advice here, and that goes for everyone.  Tell South Koreans their fears and anxieties are unwarranted, or tell North Korean defectors their experiences are not representative or just made up.  Please, go ahead.

[stephanie]

I do have a few choice words for the Polish, come to think of it.

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2020 21:21:00 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

Jun 18, 2020 20:57:34 GMT -5 @sami said:

do you think when people visit america they go to under funded areas in chicago, los angeles, new york? talk about a fake sample of reality. 

Three pages ago you were telling people not to tokenize Iranians for abstract political purposes.

If it's our ethnicities and personal experiences that give us credibility on these matters, I would ask you take your own advice here, and that goes for everyone.  Tell South Koreans their fears and anxieties are unwarranted, or tell North Korean defectors their experiences are not representative or just made up.  Please, go ahead.

how, in anyway, have i said that south korean fears and worries are unwarranted? how? what about north koreans that support their country? what about the koreans in disapora who support the dprk? i don't see how you jump to that. 

[Deleted]

and also, our experiences and ethnicities matter but they're not the only things that matter. why i find some of the takes on iran (for example) so gross are they are usually the same exact takes of highly conservative, wealthy expats. our identities matter, but so do our class positions and our subsequent takes.

[pbcookies]

Jun 18, 2020 21:37:41 GMT -5 @sami said:

Jun 18, 2020 21:21:00 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

Three pages ago you were telling people not to tokenize Iranians for abstract political purposes.

If it's our ethnicities and personal experiences that give us credibility on these matters, I would ask you take your own advice here, and that goes for everyone.  Tell South Koreans their fears and anxieties are unwarranted, or tell North Korean defectors their experiences are not representative or just made up.  Please, go ahead.

how, in anyway, have i said that south korean fears and worries are unwarranted? how? what about north koreans that support their country? what about the koreans in disapora who support the dprk? i don't see how you jump to that. 

You specifically haven't even weighed in very much on this topic, but I just found it weird you were using the ethnicity/personal connection angle on TWIL, that's all.  This is as much directed towards the others who seemed to agree with you then: Anyone that pretends as if North Koreans are satisfied with their lot based on media approved by the NK govt itself or the beliefs of deranged Western expats allowed to operate in the country because of the state of their derangement, is guilty of tokenization in my eyes.  

My family and most of the Koreans I know are from Jeolla, the socialist stronghold of the South.  These people are not reactionaries from Daegu by any stretch of the imagination.  Regardless of where one stands on the spectrum of political belief, however, NO ONE in the South would trade their freedoms for a life such as that of a North Korean, besides the truly, actually insane, deluded, or dishonest.  It is absurd to even suggest.

It has been pointed out many times, but acting as if Koreans and other Asian people don't deserve the same rights the rest of us enjoy just because it supports one's True Revolutionary Internet Persona, is gross and in this case personally offensive to me.

[pbcookies]

Jun 18, 2020 21:39:16 GMT -5 @sami said:

and also, our experiences and ethnicities matter but they're not the only things that matter. why i find some of the takes on iran (for example) so gross are they are usually the same exact takes of highly conservative, wealthy expats. our identities matter, but so do our class positions and our subsequent takes.

Agreed!

And the reasons I find the Internet tankini takes about "Best Korea" so gross is they are basically Alex Jones level conspiracy takes by people with absolutely no skin in the game.  I don't weigh in on Iran because I don't know any more than the average blue collar slob, which I am.

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2020 21:50:27 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

Jun 18, 2020 21:37:41 GMT -5 @sami said:

how, in anyway, have i said that south korean fears and worries are unwarranted? how? what about north koreans that support their country? what about the koreans in disapora who support the dprk? i don't see how you jump to that. 

You specifically haven't even weighed in very much on this topic, but I just found it weird you were using the ethnicity/personal connection angle on TWIL, that's all.  This is as much directed towards the others who seemed to agree with you then: Anyone that pretends as if North Koreans are satisfied with their lot based on media approved by the NK govt itself or the beliefs of deranged Western expats allowed to operate in the country because of the state of their derangement, is guilty of tokenization in my eyes.  We 

My family and most of the Koreans I know are from Jeolla, the socialist stronghold of the South.  These people are not reactionaries from Daegu by any stretch of the imagination.  Regardless of where one stands on the spectrum of political belief, however, NO ONE in the South would trade their freedoms for a life such as that of a North Korean, besides the truly, actually insane, deluded, or dishonest.  It is absurd to even suggest.

It has been pointed out many times, but acting as if Koreans and other Asian people don't deserve the same rights the rest of us enjoy just because it supports one's True Revolutionary Internet Persona, is gross and in this case personally offensive to me.

you want to know why i used the ethnicity personal angle? because these dorks either say A) we're arm chair larpers who don't do anything or B) we're somehow all white people who's apinions dont matter. so, when someone talks about iran, for example again, ethnicity and experience is important. you hear white muchachos accusing other people of just being white people with fake radical politics, it's offensive and laughable. so when i mention, hey, no, we actually do shit it's met with mockery. there's no winning. 

my partner is korean, and i know this may shock you, but they don't have the same take as you. i find it offensive that you think there aren't north koreans who, with their own sound mind, suppor their country. that's offensive. 10 percent of the north korean population was killed in the korean war, there are currently 23 american army bases around dprk, of fucking course they're defensive. 

[ed]

Just dropping in to say that I’d rather be from North Korea than be a Mets fan

[stephanie]

The Mets have fans?

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2020 21:56:57 GMT -5 stephanie said:

The Mets have fans?

HEY YOOOOOOOOO

[pbcookies]

Jun 18, 2020 21:54:34 GMT -5 @sami said:

Jun 18, 2020 21:50:27 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

You specifically haven't even weighed in very much on this topic, but I just found it weird you were using the ethnicity/personal connection angle on TWIL, that's all.  This is as much directed towards the others who seemed to agree with you then: Anyone that pretends as if North Koreans are satisfied with their lot based on media approved by the NK govt itself or the beliefs of deranged Western expats allowed to operate in the country because of the state of their derangement, is guilty of tokenization in my eyes.  We 

My family and most of the Koreans I know are from Jeolla, the socialist stronghold of the South.  These people are not reactionaries from Daegu by any stretch of the imagination.  Regardless of where one stands on the spectrum of political belief, however, NO ONE in the South would trade their freedoms for a life such as that of a North Korean, besides the truly, actually insane, deluded, or dishonest.  It is absurd to even suggest.

It has been pointed out many times, but acting as if Koreans and other Asian people don't deserve the same rights the rest of us enjoy just because it supports one's True Revolutionary Internet Persona, is gross and in this case personally offensive to me.

you want to know why i used the ethnicity personal angle? because these dorks either say A) we're arm chair larpers who don't do anything or we're somehow all white people who's apinions dont matter. so, when someone talks about iran, for example again, ethnicity and experience is important. you hear white muchachos accusing other people of just being white people with fake radical politics, it's offensive and laughable. so when i mention, hey, no, we actually do shit it's met with mockery. there's no winning. 

my partner is korean, and i know this may shock you, but they don't have the same take as you. i find it offensive that you think there aren't north koreans who, with their own sound mind, suppor their country. that's offensive. 10 percent of the north korean population was killed in the korean war, there are currently 23 american army bases around dprk, of fucking course they're defensive. 

Now you're the one putting words in my mouth.  I never said there weren't North Koreans who support their own country, but what does that mean when they live under the thumb of a death cult with no access to outside information?  It's like saying serfs in feudal Europe supported their lord, who gives a shit, it's totally unverifiable.

Your partner has family still in country?  They would consider trading the life they have now for one in NK?  They think the Kim family is committed to socialism?  Very curious.

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2020 21:56:57 GMT -5 stephanie said:

The Mets have fans?

gonna get my dad to post

[pbcookies]

ALSO it's pretty annoying when white people have an apinion about anything, so let's take that as a given from now on I guess

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2020 22:01:44 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

Jun 18, 2020 21:54:34 GMT -5 @sami said:

you want to know why i used the ethnicity personal angle? because these dorks either say A) we're arm chair larpers who don't do anything or we're somehow all white people who's apinions dont matter. so, when someone talks about iran, for example again, ethnicity and experience is important. you hear white muchachos accusing other people of just being white people with fake radical politics, it's offensive and laughable. so when i mention, hey, no, we actually do shit it's met with mockery. there's no winning. 

my partner is korean, and i know this may shock you, but they don't have the same take as you. i find it offensive that you think there aren't north koreans who, with their own sound mind, suppor their country. that's offensive. 10 percent of the north korean population was killed in the korean war, there are currently 23 american army bases around dprk, of fucking course they're defensive. 

Now you're the one putting words in my mouth.  I never said there weren't North Koreans who support their own country, but what does that mean when they live under the thumb of a death cult with no access to outside information?  It's like saying serfs in feudal Europe supported their lord, who gives a shit, it's totally unverifiable.

Your partner has family still in country?  They would consider trading the life they have now for one in NK?  They think the Kim family is committed to socialism?  Very curious.

death cult? like, what, dude? my partner and her mother believe in REUNIFICATION. we all live together in the us but she wants to go back. who wouldn't want to go back to their home country where their family is at? they don't think dprk are the bogeyman the west makes them believe to be. all they give a fuck about is reunification and america leaving the area and taking their military bases. as opposed to the "death cult", i'm far more concerned by sanctions that are straight up crimes against humanity. you guys sound like john bolton half the time. 

[itii]

Jun 18, 2020 22:04:59 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

ALSO it's pretty annoying when white people have an apinion about anything, so let's take that as a given from now on I guess

[pbcookies]

Jun 18, 2020 22:06:10 GMT -5 @sami said:

Jun 18, 2020 22:01:44 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

Now you're the one putting words in my mouth.  I never said there weren't North Koreans who support their own country, but what does that mean when they live under the thumb of a death cult with no access to outside information?  It's like saying serfs in feudal Europe supported their lord, who gives a shit, it's totally unverifiable.

Your partner has family still in country?  They would consider trading the life they have now for one in NK?  They think the Kim family is committed to socialism?  Very curious.

death cult? like, what, muchacho? my partner and her mother believe in REUNIFICATION. we all live together in the us but she wants to go back. who wouldn't want to go back to their home country where their family is at? they don't think dprk are the bogeyman the west makes them believe to be. all they give a fuck about is reunification and america leaving the area and taking their military bases. as opposed to the "death cult", i'm far more concerned by sanctions that are straight up crimes against humanity. you guys sound like john bolton half the time. 

I am also pro-reunification fwiw

[pbcookies]

are they from the Southwest (Jeolla), by any chance?

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2020 22:09:59 GMT -5 pbcookies said:

Jun 18, 2020 22:06:10 GMT -5 @sami said:

death cult? like, what, muchacho? my partner and her mother believe in REUNIFICATION. we all live together in the us but she wants to go back. who wouldn't want to go back to their home country where their family is at? they don't think dprk are the bogeyman the west makes them believe to be. all they give a fuck about is reunification and america leaving the area and taking their military bases. as opposed to the "death cult", i'm far more concerned by sanctions that are straight up crimes against humanity. you guys sound like john bolton half the time. 

I am also pro-reunification fwiw

fuck yeah!