☭POLITICS☭: Election Season Hell

[smashedbox]

Oct 28, 2018 21:34:36 GMT -5 Sorley Boy said:

I mean, the 55% who voted for Bolsonaro or the 44% who didn't?

wow those brazilians you know definitely convinced you on this guy huh?

[itii]

Someone wanna give me the voter turnout for today?

[Sorley Boy]

Oct 28, 2018 21:46:34 GMT -5 smashedbox said:

Oct 28, 2018 21:34:36 GMT -5 Sorley Boy said:

I mean, the 55% who voted for Bolsonaro or the 44% who didn't?

wow those brazilians you know definitely convinced you on this guy huh?

How I feel about him isn't really important. I trust my friends' judgment and I trust people in Brazil to elect their own president. I don't trust Americans who scanned a few news articles and decided its lecture time for the peons.

[Deleted]

False consciousness

[immortalrites]

There's a difference between saying people living in Brazil don't have the right to self determination and saying Bolsonaro is an objectively vile man that will push equally vile policies and it sucks real bad he got elected.

[orthoxstice]

Oct 28, 2018 21:44:18 GMT -5 Sorley Boy said:

Oct 28, 2018 21:36:12 GMT -5 orthoxstice said:

I guess my Brazilian friends didn't get the memo because they seem pretty fucking freaked out about this guy being president.

Cool, I'll ask my Brazilian friends to forward it, because they're not freaked out. Neither are, you know, the significant majority of Brazilians who just elected him.

The same thing could have been said about the parliamentary elections in Germany in 1932 but okay. Not to get all dramatic, but the dude has openly fawned over the military dictatorship and talked about executing leftists so...

[Porch Honky]

BBBBut give him a chance guys. He won't be that BAD.

I thought these last 2 years have put these arguments to rest if you're aren't a batshit right winger.

[jefe]

yea cause he's totally defending Bolsonaro guys

[orthoxstice]

Oct 29, 2018 1:15:12 GMT -5 jefe said:

yea cause he's totally defending Bolsonaro guys

You don't understand what this argument is about, do you? I know what he's saying, he's saying that because of the complexity and cultural nuance of the political situation in Brazil, American leftists should refrain from having apinions about yesterday's election of an extreme far-right politician to the presidency because, and bear with me here, he was elected with a majority of the vote and the people who voted for him think he's going to improve the situation in Brazil and they will obviously have more information than some people in the US who argue about politics on a... whatever this is forum.

Which is stupid and disingenuous. Bolsonaro is a far-right reactionary and has been his whole life. Of course I'm opposed to him or people like him taking power ANYWHERE regardless of whether it is by force through some kind of coup or by convincing a scared and frustrated electorate to vote for him. Just because his path to power is legitimate does not mean that I toss my hands up and go, "oh well I'll have no apinions about this until the end of his term when we can take o-count of the effectiveness of his presidency". Honestly I don't think Sorley Boy thinks that either, I think he's just trying to accommodate his Brazilian friends who voted for this openly chauvinistic, homophobic, and militaristic right-wing ideologue, but that's just conjecture. 

[Frederik]

Bolsonaro is a fucking monster, but the conditions in Brazil absolutely led to this guy getting elected (high crime, high unemployment, high corruption etc.). It doesn't help that the left wing parties have seemed to have discredited themselves in the eyes of the public there.

[orthoxstice]

Oct 29, 2018 8:19:23 GMT -5 Frederik said:

Bolsonaro is a fucking monster, but the conditions in Brazil absolutely led to this guy getting elected (high crime, high unemployment, high corruption etc.). It doesn't help that the left wing parties have seemed to have discredited themselves in the eyes of the public there.

And I want to be clear, I get how this happened. I mean, things were pretty fucking desperate in Weimar Germany and the NSDAP were voted into power. Desperation leads to people casting their lot with whoever they think is going to dramatically change things and I think that kind of choice is rarely about political ideology (you can look to the people who voted for Bernie in the primaries or Obama in '08 and '12 and then Trump in the general as an example).

But understanding the context in which something like this happens does not preclude someone from saying, "hey that guy is a fucking monster". 

[Spice 1]

So, my favorite buzzwords/phrases from this election cycle:

Tribalism
Cultural Marxism
Deep State
Dark Money
Radical Left

[Deleted]

Sorley Boy is being very reasonable. Like might have a few shares in some palm oil company reasonable.

[Frederik]

thebaffler.com/latest/bolsonaro-rising-hochuli

Probably the best take I've read on Brazil/Bolosanro.

[refill]

People not believing that Bolsonaro will put his words into action...

SPOILER: Click to show

[squelchingTHUD]

Oct 29, 2018 10:09:52 GMT -5 @dds4 said:

Sorley Boy is being very reasonable. Like might have a few shares in some palm oil company reasonable.

sorley boy is a fuckin idiot

[Sorley Boy]

Oct 29, 2018 8:18:09 GMT -5 orthoxstice said:

Oct 29, 2018 1:15:12 GMT -5 jefe said:

yea cause he's totally defending Bolsonaro guys

You don't understand what this argument is about, do you? I know what he's saying, he's saying that because of the complexity and cultural nuance of the political situation in Brazil, American leftists should refrain from having apinions about yesterday's election of an extreme far-right politician to the presidency because, and bear with me here, he was elected with a majority of the vote and the people who voted for him think he's going to improve the situation in Brazil and they will obviously have more information than some people in the US who argue about politics on a... whatever this is forum.

Which is stupid and disingenuous. Bolsonaro is a far-right reactionary and has been his whole life. Of course I'm opposed to him or people like him taking power ANYWHERE regardless of whether it is by force through some kind of coup or by convincing a scared and frustrated electorate to vote for him. Just because his path to power is legitimate does not mean that I toss my hands up and go, "oh well I'll have no apinions about this until the end of his term when we can take o-count of the effectiveness of his presidency". Honestly I don't think Sorley Boy thinks that either, I think he's just trying to accommodate his Brazilian friends who voted for this openly chauvinistic, homophobic, and militaristic right-wing ideologue, but that's just conjecture. 

You're entitled to have an apinion. My apinion is that it's frustrating and embarrassing to see low-information "leftists" sit in judgment of people who are desperate for any opportunity to save their country because the option they chose doesn't align with your politics. Bolsonaro sucks, but I can understand why people aren't inclined to vote for the PT when they orchestrated the largest corruption scandal in history, the largest recession in Brazilian history, a huge spike in the crime rate, then spent months trying to run a nominee currently sitting in prison on corruption charges. The nominal left had their opportunity and fucked it up colossally. Most people I know thought there would eventually be a coup or violent rioting if the PT won. Not everybody is some ideologue who thinks he has all the answers and wants to go down with the ship.

[Deleted]

Just gonna be the same dumb bait and switch we're seeing happen around the globe. Reactionary social positions for the base while enriching the wealthy and destroying the planet.

[Deleted]

The Nazis had to get people on their side too

[Sorley Boy]

Oct 29, 2018 11:26:10 GMT -5 @dds4 said:

Just gonna be the same dumb bait and switch we're seeing happen around the globe. Reactionary social positions for the base while enriching the wealthy and destroying the planet.

Very possibly. As opposed to empty economic populism for the base while destroying social order and enriching yourself and your associates under the PT. 

[xbrdclx]

[Deleted]

Can easily switch out the actors and conditions in your previous post and that's how people justify a vote for Trump.

Big shock this whole experiment didn't really work out for everyone but it's very reassuring people around the world will toss their lot in with people outright calling for violence, deregulation and pillaging.

No normie old right wing policy dork can cut it anymore for a reason.

[Deleted]

I rented a room from a guy on Airbnb while I was in Atlanta last weekend. I don't remember why on earth it came up, but I said "the only good Nazi is a dead one."
He asked me to repeat myself, so I did. Then he said a nazi was the first person who figured out how to travel to the moon?? So, I may or may not have been staying with a Nazi sympathizer lol.
(And for the record, I replied "I don't give a shit. If he didn't, someone else would have." And then the conversation stopped)

[Deleted]

We really gotta drain the swamp of corruption... but we gotta target a bunch of already vulnerable people and remove whatever safeguards we do have to fight corruption first. Toss in some tax cuts for good measure.

[Sorley Boy]

Oct 29, 2018 11:47:12 GMT -5 @dds4 said:

Can easily switch out the actors and conditions in your previous post and that's how people justify a vote for Trump.

Big shock this whole experiment didn't really work out for everyone but it's very reassuring people around the world will toss their lot in with people outright calling for violence, deregulation and pillaging.

No normie old right wing policy dork can cut it anymore for a reason.

But the situations aren't comparable. The US is basically a functional country and the Democrats are the more capable, competent party. Brazil is on the edge of a breakdown and the PT has shown itself to be an incompetent criminal cartel. Maybe Bolsonaro will be the same or worse, but I'm not going to blame people for rolling the dice. Particularly when, again, it's their country and I know people voting for both candidates who have a far more sophisticated understanding of the situation than the American internet users who have decided they're the real experts.

[Deleted]

Thinking out loud here, whose fault is it for not running someone who's just simply fucking decent?

[Deleted]

Brazil and the U.S. are different countries. Yep, checks out. We're all shit posting here and I don't know what kind of qualifications you're looking for because we're all just listening to what our friends are sending us.

My point is that the center-left continually shifts right and embraces awful policies and hush hushes the inherent corruption of our system while the right has virtually nothing left to offer except doubling down on ruthless economic policies that cause most of the problems, stroking fears and making enemies of the vulnerable.


There's enough of a track record to know not to roll the dice on someone with that kind of policy platform who says abhorrent shit. Everywhere is now littered with the calming quotes like "ahh, he's just blowing hot air..." and "Well I don't really like that stuff but..."

We see the same dumb shit happening everywhere. Why do you think it's these kinda dudes that keep winning?

[Deleted]

Condemning people for being corrupt and actually getting caught for it... good. Defending someone on the far right in the same breath... man this shit just makes me want to laugh right now. Because the right are just paragons of virtue.
I'm talking about on a grand scale, not just what someone might be saying itt

[Deleted]

Oct 29, 2018 11:56:14 GMT -5 @geneweenondrugs said:

I rented a room from a guy on Airbnb while I was in Atlanta last weekend. I don't remember why on earth it came up, but I said "the only good Nazi is a dead one."
He asked me to repeat myself, so I did. Then he said a nazi was the first person who figured out how to travel to the moon?? So, I may or may not have been staying with a Nazi sympathizer lol.
(And for the record, I replied "I don't give a shit. If he didn't, someone else would have." And then the conversation stopped)

There were some Nazis scientists that came to the US after the war and worked in NASA. They had some brilliant people, but I definitely do not support the ideology (unfortunate that I have to make that clear).

[lobsterdog]

Cool cool cool