The Last Online Marxist
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Post by The Last Online Marxist on Aug 26, 2024 20:17:19 GMT -5
smooch* sorry
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johnny two cool
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Post by johnny two cool on Aug 26, 2024 20:18:31 GMT -5
smash fed sounds hard-rocking i am not for it
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itii
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Post by itii on Aug 26, 2024 20:20:13 GMT -5
I want to smashs omoething ASAP  |
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cruststache
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Post by cruststache on Aug 26, 2024 20:26:01 GMT -5
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thefarce
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Post by thefarce on Aug 26, 2024 20:34:36 GMT -5
See my line about "removing the profit incentive" For the record, I personally don't think Amazon needs to be nationalized (maybe AWS but that's a different can of worms). Utilities (water/power/gas/telecoms), local monopolies like railroads, the insurance industry, and defense contractors are all much better candidates for nationalization. Yeah, sorry, it still isn’t clear to me. Not being a dickhead, I just don’t get how Amazon/Walmart work here. Both of those companies rely on an extremely DEcentralized basis. The prices are low because the final product you see has like fifty different countries of origin. And there is no way to make Amazon and Walmart’s business models environmentally sound. Like, I’m legit confused!! I think most people here are using "centralized/centralizing" to refer to two things: - Their vertically integrated shipping/distribution model. Sure the actual products they stock are purchased from a multitude of vendors, but once they show up on US shores they're fully integrated into Amazon's supply chain. In a physical sense Amazon's distribution is decentralized but it's managed very tightly from the top down. - Their outsized market influence. Companies as large as Amazon and Walmart are able to exert pressure on parts of the supply chain that they don't necessarily control, meaning that even when they aren't technically monopolies, they produce a lot of the same externalities that monopolies do. I agree that there's no way to copy what Amazon or Walmart does 1 for 1 and make it environmentally sound, but there's a lot of room to improve it. |
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thefarce
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Post by thefarce on Aug 26, 2024 20:39:52 GMT -5
smash fed sounds hard-rocking i am not for it Most fed-smashing advocates don't really know what a central bank does tbh |
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Post by Marco Ducatti on Aug 26, 2024 20:40:06 GMT -5
I want to smashs omoething ASAP I saw this sheep earlier  |
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johnny two cool
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Post by johnny two cool on Aug 26, 2024 20:53:57 GMT -5
I meant 50 different countries as in each individual product. Somewhat hyperbolic number for most products. But if you buy, like, stretched canvas for painting. That product is global. Extremely global, and almost all products are like that today to a degree that would strike people as absurd. E-commerce and logistics innovations, etc etc have made that possible, and it’s why you can get X product any time you want anywhere you are for cheap. Then there’s the development of just-in-time shipping, and the megaretailers drove that development, too. The supply chain didn’t break in 2020, it was overwhelmed by American consumption (and some other factors). Predictability is hard to come by in the global supply chain. The predictability Amazon and Walmart have achieved comes at an extreme cost and it requires a massive amount of labor.
Now, on the OTHER hand, do I think today’s globalized supply chain means that there’s no reason any American who needs insulin shouldn’t have it? Yes. Do I think that a major problem with capitalism is that we have the logistics, the know-how, and all that do things in more ethical, environmentally sustainable ways that allow for greater leisure time for everyone? Yes. But I don’t look at megaretailers and feel inspired at all.
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The Last Online Marxist
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Post by The Last Online Marxist on Aug 26, 2024 21:10:13 GMT -5
Still thinking about my response to the sheep pic I am speechless sorry gang
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Post by Thin Lizzy Gulag Graduate on Aug 26, 2024 21:12:44 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry, it still isn’t clear to me. Not being a dickhead, I just don’t get how Amazon/Walmart work here. Both of those companies rely on an extremely DEcentralized basis. The prices are low because the final product you see has like fifty different countries of origin. And there is no way to make Amazon and Walmart’s business models environmentally sound. Like, I’m legit confused!! I think most people here are using "centralized/centralizing" to refer to two things: - Their vertically integrated shipping/distribution model. Sure the actual products they stock are purchased from a multitude of vendors, but once they show up on US shores they're fully integrated into Amazon's supply chain. In a physical sense Amazon's distribution is decentralized but it's managed very tightly from the top down. - Their outsized market influence. Companies as large as Amazon and Walmart are able to exert pressure on parts of the supply chain that they don't necessarily control, meaning that even when they aren't technically monopolies, they produce a lot of the same externalities that monopolies do. I agree that there's no way to copy what Amazon or Walmart does 1 for 1 and make it environmentally sound, but there's a lot of room to improve it. I don’t think anyone is advocating for copying these massive corporations either - I’m certainly not. All I’m saying is that their existence and success is proof that central planning can be an effective way to ensure basic human resource needs and food can be effectively distributed using central planning. Having centralized, coordinated control of the distribution/sale/production of food and shit could be extremely efficient and effective. Throwing away millions of tons of food and shit due to a production-for-profit market is ludicrous. Centrally planned, production-for-use markets where the focus is on meeting demand economically could work just as well. The mega corp vertical integration(even if they are not producing their products in house) is proof of this. They already achieve low consumer prices while still making profit that can be extracted from the business permanently, which means even lower consumer prices if profit was needed only to cover operating costs. Production for use, not for profit. |
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Post by Thin Lizzy Gulag Graduate on Aug 26, 2024 21:13:31 GMT -5
I don't know if I'd go as far as to say walmart is centrally planned. Everybody started saying that after that book came out. A book I didn't read and will not read. But I am very smart regardless. I would say Walmart is a cybernetic system in a market economy, not that it is centrally planned in the sense something like cybersys would've been. Please subscribe to my podcast. What book? |
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The Last Online Marxist
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Post by The Last Online Marxist on Aug 26, 2024 21:16:46 GMT -5
I don't know if I'd go as far as to say walmart is centrally planned. Everybody started saying that after that book came out. A book I didn't read and will not read. But I am very smart regardless. I would say Walmart is a cybernetic system in a market economy, not that it is centrally planned in the sense something like cybersys would've been. Please subscribe to my podcast. What book? the bible |
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Post by Thin Lizzy Gulag Graduate on Aug 26, 2024 21:19:32 GMT -5
Long as it ain’t the ko-ran 👌 |
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johnny two cool
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Post by johnny two cool on Aug 26, 2024 21:23:47 GMT -5
Yeah but it’s not centralized planning. It’s a massive capitalist firm that invests heavily in its supply chain, and this has had globally negative ramifications. It’s part of the reason that roads are in such disrepair and more expensive to repair. It’s part of why freeways are always supposedly in need of widening. It makes it impossible to meet decarbonization goals. Because of just-in-time shipping and every other part of the business model. That’s how you get the product so fast. And that’s without getting into the role local, state, metropolitan planning organizations, universities, labor unions, and the federal government plays in this — and how they are impacted. You can’t yank the Amazon business model out of its context and say “but look, i made it communist.”
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thefarce
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Post by thefarce on Aug 26, 2024 21:29:48 GMT -5
Still thinking about my response to the sheep pic I am speechless sorry gang There's no response |
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meatballmaniac
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sexual camel
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Post by meatballmaniac on Aug 26, 2024 21:30:35 GMT -5
I like the crustache platform except what is “smash fed”??? would smash |
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Post by Thin Lizzy Gulag Graduate on Aug 26, 2024 22:14:14 GMT -5
Yeah but it’s not centralized planning. It’s a massive capitalist firm that invests heavily in its supply chain, and this has had globally negative ramifications. It’s part of the reason that roads are in such disrepair and more expensive to repair. It’s part of why freeways are always supposedly in need of widening. It makes it impossible to meet decarbonization goals. Because of just-in-time shipping and every other part of the business model. That’s how you get the product so fast. And that’s without getting into the role local, state, metropolitan planning organizations, universities, labor unions, and the federal government plays in this — and how they are impacted. You can’t yank the Amazon business model out of its context and say “but look, i made it communist.” Nevermind. Clearly you can’t imagine this concept without carbon copying it point for point, or truck by truck, or mile by mile. Got it. Glad you mentioned next delivery speed, that’s definitely the most important part of efficient central planning. A crucial part of making sure we don’t import 30x more bananas or heads of lettuce than the country could possibly consume is *ensuring* we have next day delivery of a single banana to my front door, and fuck, central planning just won’t work if that can’t happen! No way a corporations logistics strategy and system can possibly work without the investors pockets being lined! Thanks for pointing this stuff out! |
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johnny two cool
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Post by johnny two cool on Aug 26, 2024 22:20:58 GMT -5
I haven’t really seen what it is about Amazon and Walmart is good. Like, you keep calling it “centralized planning” and it’s not centralized planning. I do see a LOT of commodity fetishism tho.
You know that thing that only exists because of massive deregulation and a logistics system that drives everyone else in the industry to suicide and causes insane congestion and necessitates the most deadly form of inland surface transportation and hundreds of miles of warehouses? It’s actually not capitalist if you remove its reason for existing and the factors that maintain it. Then it’s just the good part I like.
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johnny two cool
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Post by johnny two cool on Aug 26, 2024 22:22:48 GMT -5
Like, if Amazon and Walmart are positive examples of centralized planning, I’m proudly anti-communist.
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Sorley Boy
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Post by Sorley Boy on Aug 26, 2024 22:57:05 GMT -5
A hot dog stand is centrally planned and Marxist because it's just one dude doing everything and marshaling and distributing resources to create hot dogs.
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The Last Online Marxist
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Post by The Last Online Marxist on Aug 26, 2024 23:02:05 GMT -5
One big thread is Marxist
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burp
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Post by burp on Aug 26, 2024 23:29:55 GMT -5
Yeah but it’s not centralized planning. It’s a massive capitalist firm that invests heavily in its supply chain, and this has had globally negative ramifications. It’s part of the reason that roads are in such disrepair and more expensive to repair. It’s part of why freeways are always supposedly in need of widening. It makes it impossible to meet decarbonization goals. Because of just-in-time shipping and every other part of the business model. That’s how you get the product so fast. And that’s without getting into the role local, state, metropolitan planning organizations, universities, labor unions, and the federal government plays in this — and how they are impacted. You can’t yank the Amazon business model out of its context and say “but look, i made it communist.”
Similarly, on the topic of this is not only the absurd infrastructure demands, but the manner in which this new method becomes the normal in everyone's mind. I can't really begin to conceptualize how to step back from "banana to my door, any time I want" and not step deeply into some ungainly de-growth territory.
I guess there might be the argument that those things are still technically possibly, you simply need to make some kind of material substitution for the methods of transport etc but I don't see that as a reality. It might in fact be the way things unfold (i.e. slightly cleaner capitalism) but I've rarely seen the consumer take the choice that isn't convenience (for me) uber alles.
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tandoori jones
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lake dues
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Post by tandoori jones on Aug 26, 2024 23:32:23 GMT -5
capitalism only moves in one direction. til eventually one company owns everything
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burp
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Post by burp on Aug 26, 2024 23:32:42 GMT -5
Yeah but it’s not centralized planning. It’s a massive capitalist firm that invests heavily in its supply chain, and this has had globally negative ramifications. It’s part of the reason that roads are in such disrepair and more expensive to repair. It’s part of why freeways are always supposedly in need of widening. It makes it impossible to meet decarbonization goals. Because of just-in-time shipping and every other part of the business model. That’s how you get the product so fast. And that’s without getting into the role local, state, metropolitan planning organizations, universities, labor unions, and the federal government plays in this — and how they are impacted. You can’t yank the Amazon business model out of its context and say “but look, i made it communist.” Nevermind. Clearly you can’t imagine this concept without carbon copying it point for point, or truck by truck, or mile by mile. Got it. Glad you mentioned next delivery speed, that’s definitely the most important part of efficient central planning. A crucial part of making sure we don’t import 30x more bananas or heads of lettuce than the country could possibly consume is *ensuring* we have next day delivery of a single banana to my front door, and fuck, central planning just won’t work if that can’t happen! No way a corporations logistics strategy and system can possibly work without the investors pockets being lined! Thanks for pointing this stuff out!
I understand the argument you are making here, that due to the apparent accuracy of just in time delivery, there may be some upstream reduction in overall demand but I'm not really sure it works that way. Instead of some grocery store throwing out 8 tons of bananas every week, it will just be some warehouse.
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boundforgloryhole
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Post by boundforgloryhole on Aug 26, 2024 23:50:13 GMT -5
I want to smashs omoething ASAP I saw this sheep earlier beastforum is that way 👉 |
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carl carlson
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Post by carl carlson on Aug 27, 2024 4:57:41 GMT -5
 I want to smashs omoething ASAP I saw this sheep earlier  |
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Mr. Dingle Foot
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Post by Mr. Dingle Foot on Aug 27, 2024 5:14:05 GMT -5
Hey smarties, I got a question:
Should governments (perhaps local but probably state) limit the amount of square footage that an individual can own (corporations would also be under similar restrictions)? If so, how much is enough to own and allow a comfortable life without being too generous for properties with oversized lawns or three-headed families from owning houses with over 2k sqft (not including yards)?
Thanks!
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Mr. Dingle Foot
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Post by Mr. Dingle Foot on Aug 27, 2024 5:14:37 GMT -5
P.s. it is a real shame narc is such a punisher cause he seems kinda smart.
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FEMA Sniper
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Post by FEMA Sniper on Aug 27, 2024 5:33:14 GMT -5
I'll take one Proletariat Polish dog with mustard and spicy relish from the Marxist hot dog stand.
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Post by Talentless Elvis Costello on Aug 27, 2024 6:38:59 GMT -5
there was also shaved sheep shussy
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